posted
Following recent standards, I shall now begin consolidating all release notes into a single topic (per toy, I mean)
These are the development/release notes for toy 4 - Empyrion
In the spirit of toys being my way of paying homage to games I personally enjoy playing, Empyrion is my contribution to the glut of RTS (Real Time Strategy) games.
It's certainly not the most amazing of RTS's, but then again, it's free. Empyrion includes integrated map and empire editors, so you can add to the game. If your firewall doesn't prevent it, you can easily share maps and firewalls with other players, and host your own channel servers.
Up to eight players, no bots. Latecomers can watch (as spectators) but cannot enter a game in progress.
-------------------- He knows when you are sleeping. Posts: 10585 | From: California | Registered: Dec 1998
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Not a huge functionality release, just a lot of little ui details and a few new assets
* drag-select of units is improved * arrow keys cause scroll of map * fetching maps/empires should not require re-entering server * some bugs fixed relating to mastery changes * If you MUTE someone, and you are master, they cannot join game. * Master can remove someone from a slot by right-click menu * Additional messages in chat window to track game state * Scenario Dialog can no longer be closed manually, just minimized. * Spectators no longer see long list of bogus alliance messages when entering game in progress * morph cursor appears immediately, when appropriate (no mouse wiggle required) * wins/losses might work better * disappearing people are accounted for better * people leaving in mid-game should not interfere with remaining players * more sound effects (for example, when master changes) * Improvements to Map Editor * other stuff I forget. * pre-game mni-map shows base locations (yours is flashing) * Map Editor unzoomed view supports tile drop/pickup (but not drag)
New Assets:
* More building images * New Empire: Intruders (geezers + more) * Old Empire: Geezers (fixed a small bug in construction yard) * New Empire: Commandos (start with a handful of units and no ability to build more) * New Map: Diamond Back * Old Maps: Re-placed starting locations in 'official' maps. * New Tiles: (several new 'diamond-shape' tiles)
I am hoping this makes map making a little more fun (and so we get some good maps. I'm tired of always playing gargoyle canyon. Give Diamond Back a try.)
When making a map, give thought to the 2x as wide as it is tall form factor that adds to camera angle consistency (like I should brag - given my inconsistent building angles!)
I suggest making your map 256 wide by 128 tall, then using the 'unzoomed' view to drop some key tiles to layout the basic areas, then use the zoom view to do the detail work. Finally go back to unzoomed and set the starting base locations.
And don't forget your friend the map texture maker. Feel free to send me more 64x64 texture squares while you're at it :-)
posted
<Suck up>I think Empyrion is the most amazing RTS.</Suck up>
I like the new maps. For some odd reason, I've never been able to fetch anything from Arcadia (Empyrion maps/empires, SS maps, face, etc).
And for textures, is there any that you specifically want?
-------------------- I drew the cute little pig in my avatar. You don't have a cute little pig in your avatar. I win! Posts: 10782 | From: Spammely Hills | Registered: Jan 2001
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posted
I think it sounds cool but my mother has officially disconected me from the internet. I had to re-boot all my files cause she deleted them but oh well. as soon as she lets me back on i will play at night again
[Well, I generally take the mom's side in these things... so think about what her concerns are and what you can do to allay them. Chances are she really is worried about what is best for you in the long run. All things in moderation. Except homework and pizza -s]
-------------------- "Just remember kids there are no stupid questions... just stupid people" Posts: 16 | From: my computer chair | Registered: Dec 2003
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posted
Would it be possible to set a time building limit? You only can build n number units in t time? Say 100 units a minute or something.
-------------------- SoV: Exalted Devout Oracle | World Developer | The Black Guard Outside is just a prank older kids tell younger kids at Internet Camp Posts: 9479 | From: NY | Registered: Apr 2003
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I got around to seeing how this actually works in Empyrion. Now on one occasion, I had the person muted, but they joined the list without a problem.
I thought maybe it didn't work, but then yesterday someone I had muted couldn't join and I know they were trying to because the second I unmuted them they showed up on the list. Which made me realize that on their screen it showed them on the list but on mine it didn't (and that is what matters).
Of course though, like a lot of good things the blocking of the person for playing is bypassed. Here is basically what happens (I tested this multiple times to make sure). The master has someone muted, then the muted person will join the list but the master won't see them join. Then a game will start but the muted person of course isn't in the game, but when the game ends there is the loading of the new screen and Arcadia picks up that the muted person is on the list and they show up on the master's screen even though they are muted.
One of the times this happened the master shifted from me to the muted person but for what reason I'm not sure. Anyways figured I'd point that out. Not sure if you know a way to fix it or not.
-------------------- Sludge: long live the depression, is what I say, if it means continually cheaper prices! Posts: 308 | From: In a Blimp | Registered: Sep 2002
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I think there are only 2 changes in this release. The first is a bug fix for the starting positions of the units (a large number of units should now 'spiral around' the base instead of going off entirely to the right.)
The other is that units now remember the target you give them.. So if you select a bunch of units, and then click on an enemy unit, they will travel to that physical location (they won't "follow" the target, however) and then preferentially attack that target.
They will also attack targets of opportunity along the way, so you won't find them focussing completely on the target, just more than before.
Sorry I did this work 3 or so weeks ago and never pushed it, so I have sort of forgotten what else I might have fiddled with :-)
-------------------- He knows when you are sleeping. Posts: 10585 | From: California | Registered: Dec 1998
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* up on the MINI map, a new button 'A' just under the old button '?'
This is the 'allies' button. Press and hold to see a recap of who is currently allied with whom. Spectators only learn of alliances as pieces are moved around, so they may take some time to get synced, but other than that this SHOULD be definitive. Let me know if you think it isn't
For each active player there is one line, starting with the flag and name of that player. To the right of that are up to 8 other flags, shown for each play THEY HAVE ALLIED. Remember that alliances are one-way, so just because you have allied bill, doesn't mean bill has allied you. This page should help you remember what's what. (rather than scrolling back through the text window)
* Fixed a terrain glitch which led to walking 'through walls' on occasion. There are probably others remaining.
I also looked at the terrain-walking code, which is clearly a source of lag on an older PC. But I didn't really make any changes to it, so that lag possibility remains.
Oh, right, I was going to try to auto-determine if you were experiencing 'sound lag' and reduce the sounds if so. Forgot to do that. Next time, maybe.
I think that's about it, but I made changes in Arcadia which should help out in all toys. (Specifically version checking and player pinging)
-------------------- He knows when you are sleeping. Posts: 10585 | From: California | Registered: Dec 1998
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posted
Here is a list of suggestions for Empyrion. I also very well understand that it will be years most likely before Dan has time to even implement a few of these, that of course is taking the position that he even wants to do them in the first place, let alone all of them. I would like to know what of them Dan is willing to do and what he is not.
First the barriers need more flexibility. It would be very hand to be able to define them to a degree, such as Height levels. 1 being a barrier that can both be seen and shot over and gives a 'partial cover' bonus to units that are right next to it (Say 5-10%). Second type would be one that can be seen over, but not fired over unless the unit had a height of 1+. At the 3rd level units with no height would not be able to shoot or see over the barrier. Probably best to set this to a max height of 5 and a unit max height of 3 or 4. This would add quite a bit of depth when making a map.
Next it be good to have regenerating fog on the maps, not necessary to see the terrain you have already seen, just fog that regenerates, and can be controlled how quickly by the master at the start, 0 is no fog, 1 fog that does not regenerate, 2 is fog that regenerates every 5 seconds, 3 is fog that regenerates every 10, etc.
Now to the units, I feel that there needs to be 3 more attribute for units. They are armor level and weapon accuracy. Accuracy being definable from 10-95 with that being the standard % to hit only modified by the target if it is moving, with a minus of the target units speed multiplied by .1, i.e. a unit that is moving and has a speed of 50 would drop a weapon firing at it with a accuracy of 75% to 70% (50*.1=5 75-5=70).
Armor class would be an attribute going from 1-10. With that being a minus to how much damage is done to the unit. A unit that normally takes 20% damage from a weapon would then take only 15% if the unit being fired upon had an armor class of 5. This would be handy for units able to morph. Currently units that morph 'lose' hit points if they go from one unit to another that has less total hit points, and when returning to the first unit they do not regain those hit points. This would allow the armor class to adjust for the limitation.
Final one being only enable able for Soldier units. And it being a medic attribute. Which heals a unit completely, but it has to wait so much time before it can do this again, which can be defined as x many seconds ranging from 5-60.
Neutral Units would be a very spiffy addition. These would be added while the map is being made. Now I know there are going to be the screams about AI, but that can be circumvented by 2 simple things. First being that Neutral Units can not move, i.e. have to have a speed of 0. That eliminates any need for AI pathing. Second being an attribute that is defined as aggressive or passive. If the unit is set to aggressive then it will fire upon the first thing it sees that is not another neutral unit (to allow the creation of say a line of turrets that would in the beginning prevent rushes by infantry, but later are too weak to stop tanks). A passive unit would not fire upon another unit but rather would help it. That would only be usable if the unit could actually use the "Pad Type" feature so it could then heal units that are over it. To allow this it could be set for that 'neutral group' to be able to ally by the players, so they could un-ally and fire upon it if they felt the need to destroy it.
End of game methods other complete obliteration can also help. First being that a map has a time limit with the game ending either in the normal manner, or after the limit has ended and the person with the most units wins, over simplified by easiest unless one wants to assign point values to units for this. Second type being one that ends as per normal or when certain neutral buildings have been destroyed.
Posts: 44 | Registered: Dec 2001
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posted
I admit I never liked regenerating fog. (in other games, I mean). though as I type this it occurs to me how to do it. Still, it's freaky.
I think the spending rate is fixed... though I have a nagging feeling it also relates to power level (at least to the degree of being slowed when power is red, but maybe linearly over the whole range of powers.)
Buy one expensive item (I mean make sure it is the only thing you are building) and then time it.
What gets weird is how I allocate the available cash flow to multiple items being built simultaneously. I like it, but I'm not sure how I got to it :-) it's chaotic in a way which rewards you for focussing on one thing at a time, which I think maximizes strategic and game value...
-------------------- He knows when you are sleeping. Posts: 10585 | From: California | Registered: Dec 1998
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posted
Ya that is cool how it spreads the payment, some units don't get built at all though, more extra power should be more units per minute or something.
Also, it just came to me, units that follow units, I select my 5 mammoth tanks and choose for it to chase a light tank, and it follows it wherever it goes until they destroy it, get destroyed, or re-ordered to do something else.
-------------------- SoV: Exalted Devout Oracle | World Developer | The Black Guard Outside is just a prank older kids tell younger kids at Internet Camp Posts: 9479 | From: NY | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
the interesting thing to do in this case is to right-click on the owner's name and select the PING option. Do this a couple times and make sure the last ping value is changing.
If their ping is really bad, it explains the situation as lag.
But watch out for no response to ping at all... This could mean someone who is intentionally blocking packet traffic just to have invulnerable units.
I believe once *you* think the unit is dead, it will not shoot (much) at you. It does a little to fix catch-22 situations where 2 players with one unit each both think the other guy is dead. There needs to be continued gunfire in that case to eventually end the deadlock.
-------------------- He knows when you are sleeping. Posts: 10585 | From: California | Registered: Dec 1998
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posted
lately, with the barrier bug, lag units are more frequent. i think this is because the owner of the unit and other people see the unit in different positions. this means that, on the unit owner's arcadia, the tank isnt anywhere near danger, but on yours, it shoots at you. a similar thing happened to me with a bazooker in my base (that got there because of the barrier bug). i eventually sent planes to random locations to try and kill it
*edit - and dan, if it isnt too much trouble, could you make it possible to create a unit where weapon1 and weapon2 shoot simultaneously?
-------------------- "In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." Posts: 152 | From: yesterday | Registered: Nov 2003
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posted
This sure is a lot for you to read through all these possible improvements and *try* to work on them! ^.^
About the fac that:
quote: the fifth wouldnt build at all.
Hm... only 4 units are allowed to be built at once, right? I think it's the way empyrion works. For all the years I've been playing it only 4 units build at once. ^.^ Hey, but how does the program *choose* which units to build and which not to build?
Hey, it would be cool to make an "empire download" section somewhere. Much like the download new world in WoS! ^.^ Just an idea!
Posts: 4 | From: *points* | Registered: Aug 2004
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quote:Hey, but how does the program *choose* which units to build and which not to build?
of the units you have under construction, I believe the four units that will be built are the ones with the lowest unit ID numbers.
-------------------- "In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." Posts: 152 | From: yesterday | Registered: Nov 2003
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* Changed 'closest target in range' selection criteria to use actual circle instead of weird box shape..
* MAY have fixed the 'CV' bug, but since I couldn't actually duplicate it, I am not confident I know what the problem was. Side effect is units cannot cost $0. Which probably breaks fifty empires, sorry.
* Found a reasonably huge bug in a recent waypoint 'improvement' which led to chaotic final destinations. Should be fixed now, but side effect may be a reduced ability to auto-navigate long distances in complex terrain (and you may not think it is complex)
-------------------- He knows when you are sleeping. Posts: 10585 | From: California | Registered: Dec 1998
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* Second Attempt to fix CV bug. I found a possible root cause, though again I was never able to completely reproduce this.
* More work on waypoint engine to try to make it less likely to walk through thin walls (walls are thinner than they look). Mapmakers are cautioned to not make their walls too thin.
-------------------- He knows when you are sleeping. Posts: 10585 | From: California | Registered: Dec 1998
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posted
I just added a couple things for Abyaly, to make up for removing the negative cost units no longer being available.
But I don't want to release a THIRD version tonight, since I figure a more important bug will probably need to be fixed in a moment anyway, so I am sitting on the following:
1.) weapon recharge rate, if specified, overrides default recharge rate (instead of extending it) and can be entered as a floating point value... like 0.5 (in seconds, roughly)
2.) ore loads may be negative (so a unit COSTS you a certain amount of cash every N seconds)
3.) Factory buttons no longer inherit previous game's units.
posted
If it were possible for units to reduce their own health to 0 after 1 shot so units like mines were possible.
Also, buildings that are immpassable until they are destroyed, so the buildings would basically serve as barricades.
Negative-vision, would it be possible to have a negative-vision set so that instead of providing fog to you, it would make it so that while that unit existed, inside the vision range was invisible to enemy units? [even when there is no fog of war ]
More weapons, units can so far use quite a few weapons, but I'd like to see weapons that can only hit 1 type of unit, or at least favor damaging tanks/buildings over troops but does not hurt planes.
-------------------- SoV: Exalted Devout Oracle | World Developer | The Black Guard Outside is just a prank older kids tell younger kids at Internet Camp Posts: 9479 | From: NY | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
I think the ideal way to recuce lag would be to give people the ability to specify the unit cap in the empire. So people might make empires that only allow up to 50 units, and you have no problem.
-------------------- "In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." Posts: 152 | From: yesterday | Registered: Nov 2003
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posted
There is more or less a(nother) bug with morphing units. If a unit morphs into a factory, and the factory can morph back into another unit, there is no way to set that factory as the primary factory.
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Didn't you promise me new empyrion stuff a few months ago . I'm still waiting on the negative ore, and legal negative damage(so you can't break Aby's balance empire).
[healing weapons supported in next release.. but they are limited to healing only up to the maxHP of the unit. -s]
-------------------- SoV: Exalted Devout Oracle | World Developer | The Black Guard Outside is just a prank older kids tell younger kids at Internet Camp Posts: 9479 | From: NY | Registered: Apr 2003
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-------------------- "In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." Posts: 152 | From: yesterday | Registered: Nov 2003
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I think we should have the option for passable tiles, or just a totally new object that can be passed by ground units and will still appear on the minimap.
Since my current map is all tiles, no ground units can be moved and no buildings placed, but I see no other way to make the tiles appear on the minimap, which the map corresponds directly with an empire I am making.
Also, if you made the new object, or tile, you could maybe have it set to where the new object has a restriction on the types of units it allows to cross it. For instance, you could have the DiamondWater tiles (or new objects) be set to let only the Watercraft and UnderwaterCraft type pass it, which would also give use to those unit types that really have no special use.
I'm not quite sure how complicated having a passable tile is, or a new passable object seen my the mini-map. I feel having certain restrictions might be a bit more complicated, but not the greatest deal, I'm not sure. Anyways consider it.
Click-Morphing:
Let's say I have unit A, and it morphs into unit B. Even though unit B has a require unit, unit A will still click-morph into unit B.
Basically, I think click-morphing should be able to check the unit requirements (Unit B) before morphing. If the requirements for the click-morphed unit (B) are not present at the time of the click-morph, then the unit (A) should fail to click-morph and remain the same.
[Good suggestion. I have added this to next release. For morph to work, you must meet the two 'req' restrictions for the target unit. But the target unit does NOT have to have a 'source' value (otherwise you could only morph into units which could be made at a factory) -s]
-------------------- Sludge: long live the depression, is what I say, if it means continually cheaper prices! Posts: 308 | From: In a Blimp | Registered: Sep 2002
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* Major improvement in pathfinder speed (but it includes an increased delay when first loading the map, since I analyze stuff at map load time.) All in all, should be a major lag reduction during heavy battle.
* Weapons can inflict negative damage (i.e. heal), and healing is limited to no more than the maxHP of the unit being healed.
* Units can provide negative ore (and hopefully I limit that you you having 0 gold pieces as it were, as opposed to going in debt)
* If you are mutually allied with someone, then you can drop buildings near theirs. I mean, a new building has to be dropped near a friendly building, but that can be an ally's building instead of just your own.
* Empire List is alphbetized
* weapon recharge rate, if specified, overrides default recharge rate (instead of extending it) and can be entered as a floating point value... like 0.5 (in seconds, roughly)
* Factory buttons no longer inherit previous game's units
* fixed form generator which was trying to save forms in toyfolder/temp/temp/file instead of toyfolder/temp/file
* Can now specify 0 for 'start with' (so you can undo it if you set it to > 0 for a moment)
* when morphing a unit, you must possess the pre-requisite units for the morph target. (the req1 and req2, you do NOT need the 'source' for the moprhtarget, since I want you to be able to morph into things for which there is no factory
=== OK, I am pushing this tonight anyway. You only waited a year for it :-). Hopefully I haven't broken anything too horribly.
NOTE TO MYSELF: Try to work out the base height of zero deal.. specifically the 'this is a flat on the ground thing'
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Also, Here is what I am thinking of...
1.) Imagine map tiles as they exist today. They are barriers anywhere they are not transparent
2.) and they are barriers to all but aircraft.
I am thinking of a second tile format, probably specifed by the file name, maybe controlled by the upper left pixels.. In any case, if you made a tile with this characteristic, it would be twice as wide as normal, with the left side being the visible tile, and the right side being the barrier information.
And for barrier information, there would be a small number of special colors which meant "no barrier" "bar all but planes" and "bar all but planes and boats" (and perhaps more)
Anyway, I think that is just what I have to do, although I have certainly been RESISTING it long enough!
This also means I probably have to extend the editor to support some sort of 'bring to front' 'push to back' behaviour, so you can put your bridge tiles on top of your ocean tiles, and have the top-most tile control passage rights....
Well, that still won't give us a bridge that a boat can sail UNDER, as it were. I mean I can make it passable, but it wouldn't render the bridge on top of the sea units.
And ideally there should be a special deal that if the barrier color is 'water' that maybe I do something wacky to the corresponding image pixel to make the water more connected as one smooth tetxure, even though you dropped a handful of overlapping tiles.
Or not. Probably won't wait for this before releasing 38... This coming week and weekend is really busy at work and at home...
Shame you have a busy week coming up. synjam has been a year in waiting, too Warpath might take time to convert over to a toy if you choose to, though.
-------------------- SoV: Exalted Devout Oracle | World Developer | The Black Guard Outside is just a prank older kids tell younger kids at Internet Camp Posts: 9479 | From: NY | Registered: Apr 2003
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Base height (as I see it) - 1 base height means the building occupies all of the tiles the image occupies except the top row - X base height means the building occupies all of the tiles the image occupies except the top X rows - Following from this, if the base height is greater than or equal to X, the building should occupy none of the tiles it is placed on - as if it were hovering above the ground, or in the case of a pad, simply on the ground and not preventing things from being erected over it, like a layer of concrete or a paint stain. - And also following from this, if the base height is zero, the building should occupy all of the tiles it is placed on, even the top row. Think of a missile silo. This is what we talked about when we first talked about base height. I hope this helps.
-------------------- "In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." Posts: 152 | From: yesterday | Registered: Nov 2003
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posted
yeah the wall thing is on purpose though... so I won't fix that.
This is odd though, I see exactly where I made my mistake (preventing red team from building), but for some reason it isn't stopping ME from doing it. Very odd.
Anyway, I will push 39 tonight... But I am going to think about some tile stuff first. I don't like the left/right sided tiles really since the right side (the passability colors) is actually much coarser than the visible side, and if I let you do it in high-rez and then scrunch it down, I will be wasting memory AND confusing people.
But if I make it a separate file, as in:
tile.bmp tile.ter
then I have to muck with the file sharing code since the asker has no way of knowing if the sender has 2 files or one, unless I have to pre-register the tiles in some directory, which I definitely don't want to do.
I guess I could do both.. with a name decoration for the .bmp which meant "there IS a separate .ter file for this"
Like
tile.bmp
would stand alone, but
tile_t.bmp tile_t.ter
would know it had a paired .ter file because of the _t.
The .ter file would be 1/16th or so the dimensions of the .bmp file, and perhaps a 16 color windows format file.
I guess maybe I will not delay 39 for this. I will just have a quick look at the building height stuff and see if I feel like cramming that in.
-------------------- He knows when you are sleeping. Posts: 10585 | From: California | Registered: Dec 1998
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posted
ok, I changed the baseheight stuff, and it's going to be a little weird.
1.) I had to leave the value of 0 (aka not-set) the same, or risk breaking existing empires. So a value of zero makes it 'lower half is on the ground')
2.) a value of -1 does what a value of 0 SHOULD do... which is to make it "all in the air".. that is to say, units appear to walk under it for the most part. It cannot be placed with any overlap at all to another building. It's a weird sort of "you can hide units here" option.
3.) a large value will be interpreted as "the same height as the building itself) and makes a unit which can be placed anywhere (can be place 'on top' of other biuldings), but is also then 'on top of' all units (a canopy that units can walk under.)
4.) I will TRY to have -2 be "completely on the ground" (units can walk all over it), and have pencilied that in... but.. it aint' easy, and I believe I mentioned I have no time :-( So until I follow through on this, -2 will act the same as -1.
SO... not really at all what you wanted, and definitely a bit weird.
-------------------- He knows when you are sleeping. Posts: 10585 | From: California | Registered: Dec 1998
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* Feature: baseHeight can now be set to actual full height of building, plus two 'novelty' values: -1 (it 'floats above' units who walk under it.) and -2 (it sits on the ground and units walk on top of it)
A value of 0 still does the 'halfway' behaviour, so as to be compatible with existing empires.
-------------------- He knows when you are sleeping. Posts: 10585 | From: California | Registered: Dec 1998
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posted
Even without the -2, I could set a -1 building or a canopy building to be a pad type in order to appear under other units. Thank you very much, Dan ^^
-------------------- "In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." Posts: 152 | From: yesterday | Registered: Nov 2003
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posted
I'm not sure how I feel about huge numbers of units. Usually RTS games make you choose critically between a smaller number of units, rather than load up the empire with every possibly flavor of unit.
For one thing, there is an implied factory button for every unit (unless you're mainly during morph chains or something) and scrolling though the factory lists is no fun.
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In any case, I understand you are asking for a resizable Empire editor window?
But I didn't understand what lag you meant. feel free to clarify the exact point in time you see the lag you want to have lessened.
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I reworked the empire editor dialog, moving some stuff around so I could support resizability. You can now resize and/or maximize it. Makes more room for the property list, as well, so you can see all the props at once.
I still find I forget to push the SET PROP button a lot of the time.. I should do something about that... auto-set might be dangerous, and a popup "are you sure" sounds tedious.
The map editor could also use a formal 'save' button instead of every doodle instantly making a permanent change. That is a bit harder, unfortunately, due to the caching nature of .ini files. Might have to live with some sort of 'save a copy of current' metaphor. And then 'revert to last save point'
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Note to myself:
Add a 'weapon AI' property to both primary and secondary weapons, which influences target selection.
* healer - prefers same team or ally with lowest percentage HP
* finisher - prefers enemy team member with lowest percentage HP
* starter - prefers enemy team member with highest percentage HP
* random - (default) prefers the enemy you target-selected. Picks randomly otherwise. (today's behaviour)
Hmm, and I guess they should also prefer to attack things against which the weapon is most effective... or should that be a separate selection. Or is it just:
* optimal - picks in-range weakest target against which its weapon would create the largest percentage change in HP.
* defensive - picks in-range most threatening target (target whose weapon would be most effective against the unit itself?)
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Of course, the game's loose synchronization means that most of the time it's still going to be a random soup of firepower, it just needs to 'look right' on each individual machine -- which should be the case once the units reach their travel destinations (which are pretty well synched, in the absence of map hacking).
posted
*edit - Note to Dan: As is it now, units fire at the closest enemy unit; they do not fire at random (this is why the absorbing units are so effective) *
I like the weapon AI, but I would prefer for the default to still be "closest" so that existing empires still work as intended (yes, the absorbers were mine ^^). And instead of making a special case for "healer" AI, I think it would be better to use "finisher" weapon AI, but give it negative damage and make it fire only on ally units. It would be nice if distinction for "fires on allies", "fires on enemies", and "fires on both allies and enemies" was defined seperately from weapon AI, as it gives opportunities for "traitor" units (it gives you power, but it kills your units), "agressive" units (they dont care what affiliation the unit they attack has), and varying kinds of healers (optimal, finisher, random).
-------------------- "In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." Posts: 152 | From: yesterday | Registered: Nov 2003
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posted
I disagree, aby, I think "optimal" would be best if when you say largest percentage, you mean based on their total health and not their current health. Otherwise you'll end up with a bunch of nearly dead troops lieing around. I don't know about you, but I prefer to have one less gun shooting at me, rather than them all partially weakened. Unless you make thier damage decrease with their health...but that won't happen.
Absorbing units could still be made, but as they are in their current state, they completely absorb everything in many cases. If a unit stands NO chance of shooting them down....so why would you bother having that unit shooting at them at all? Aby, you have a unit called "absorption" in ZCA....this still acts as an absorber even those it gets hit AND takes damage. That is how they should be implemented...not a seemingly invincible unit that is due to the fact that the 'AI' chooses to shoot at a target that it can't do any damage to it, when there is a perfectly valid target in range that it can shoot. It's not proper to call it 'AI' when there is no Intelligence about it.
If you are going to leave it at "closest" at least make it so every weapon does some damage to every unit, even if it is just a small percentage... Though this is still not preferable.
If your concern is about old empires, fine. Empires that people still like will be corrected. Ones that no one likes/plays will die off. If you are going to bring up the commandos issue, well you could just make an airplane with a large amount of HP and a sacrifical land unit with a large amount too....
God forbid people come up with strategy that isn't exploiting a bad feature and is instead based on skill. (Though, granted, it does take some skill to exploit it properly.)
quote: not a seemingly invincible unit that is due to the fact that the 'AI' chooses to shoot at a target that it can't do any damage to it
quote: If you are going to leave it at "closest" at least make it so every weapon does some damage to every unit, even if it is just a small percentage... Though this is still not preferable.
Absorbs do take damage. They take just as damage as the other buildings would. The only difference is that they have 4 times the hp.
-------------------- Sludge: long live the depression, is what I say, if it means continually cheaper prices! Posts: 308 | From: In a Blimp | Registered: Sep 2002
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Also, I *think* the AI will always work something like this:
1.) I have nothing to shoot at 2.) Pick something 3.) Keep shooting at it until it is dead or I am no longer able to shoot at it.
Otherwise, "shoot weakest enemy" would just sort of orbit in a circle shooting the same 10 nearby enemies in a row.
Plus it would increase the amount of CPU cycles used in step 2.
Plus you couldn't do cool strategies like "attack with cheap troop first, then run the expensive ones through while the opponents are fixated on killing the first wave"
Which is.. come to think of it, also why it's a good idea to have a little bit of randomness in it as well...
-------------------- He knows when you are sleeping. Posts: 10585 | From: California | Registered: Dec 1998
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I'm not sure what "absorbs" are, I assumed you guys were refering to the cheap tactic of flying a plane between you and your armies. Thus forcing them to move any AA guys they have to the front of the crowd to kill the plane....but your troops sitting behind your plane would wipe out the AA before they shoot the plane down...the rest of your enemy troops end up shooting the the plane too, despite the fact they can do NOTHING to it...and their are perfectly good targets to shoot at that they can kill.
If you are talking about the unit in ZCA, I did speak of that properly.
quote:Aby, you have a unit called "absorption" in ZCA....this still acts as an absorber even [though] it gets hit AND takes damage. That is how they should be implemented...not a seemingly invincible unit that is due to the fact that the 'AI' chooses to shoot at a target that it can't do any damage to it, when there is a perfectly valid target in range that it can shoot.
posted
With the unit transformations, sometimes the transformed-into unit has a different higher HP than the one you started with. Which means upgrade units with higher stats will start off with less HP than max, even if the pre-transformed version has max HP. So would it be possible to ADD HP based on the difference between pre and post transformation? So even if the pre unit has a max hp of 100, and is damaged to 50, while the post unit has 200 max hp, when transformed the hp will go to 150.
[I could swear I had the morphed units retain the % health they had pre-morph, not the absolute health... I'll check that. But that is what I think is fair.. if at 50% max pre-morph, then still at 50% new max post-morph.
But my memory is INcorrect, I simply maintain the hp. I will change that now.
It is changed.
Note: while YOU will see an accurate hp meter on the unit, other people will probably see what looks like a full hp meter. You will die at the correct moment, but it will come something as a surprise to them.
This is because I never send actual HP values between players. Though I probably could afford to do it for a morphed unit. But it's too expensive to send around individual wounds, as it were.
-------------------- SoV: Exalted Devout Oracle | World Developer | The Black Guard Outside is just a prank older kids tell younger kids at Internet Camp Posts: 9479 | From: NY | Registered: Apr 2003
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For some odd reason, I've never been able to fetch anything from Arcadia (Empyrion maps/empires, SS maps, face, etc).
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. I'm still waiting on the negative ore, and legal negative damage(so you can't break Aby's balance empire).
