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Author Topic: synSpace Development Notes
Mosquito
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Noticed some weird things with zone currents: when you use your engines in a zone with current against the current, after you leave the zone your engines send you back into it because the zone current has stopped and you get a new direction.

I dunno if this really means anything but when I put a damaging barrier at the end of a zone and had the zone push you towards it, if I resisted the zone, I got launched back and forth across the barrier at the edge of the zone killing me.


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Mosquito
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Oh

For powerups, could a style of -1 choose a random weapon powerup?

This would make it easier for map designers (or even for my editor) to override the first 20 but still have the random powerups.


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Mosquito
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Zones wants to be written from closest corner to origin to farthest corner to origin. If you get it backwards, there is no zone.

I know you eased up with barriers typed backwards, will this happen with zones?

[hmmm, everyone expects me to be consistent... you should know me better than that by now! Seriously, that would be a good thing for me to do.. -s]

[This message has been edited by samsyn (edited 11-19-2001).]


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Volte6
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Heres what seems like a bug...

I placed 2 flags for a CTF map (Odd/Even)
...
If i pick up the flag, it seems the flag actually will respawn after a while...it appear there even after I have it in my possession.

[be sure to set the spawn seconds to the value you want. This way flags can be retuned home if not 'played' within a certain amount of time. -s]

/a shrugs

Oh, and the thing where you cannot go through corners now...
It seems that it messes with bullets. If you shoot at one (external corner) at an angle that should cause it to continue on but bounce off of the corner, it comes back at you...hope that makes sense...

[please try to consider it an exciting feature! -s]

[This message has been edited by samsyn (edited 11-20-2001).]


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Volte6
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Dan,
I know you want to have a bunch of UNIQUE weapons that are limited in # of uses. BUT, I think what is needed is a more permanent upgrade to weapons BESIDES power. Otherwise the game begins revolving around either searching for a bunch of homers and the like, or eventually everyone is duking it out with the basic plasma rounds.
How about variations on the plasman rounds?
Twin-shot,
Semi-homing (curve towards targets like gravity)
etc. etc. I think i mentioned this before but never got a response.
Basically Just a way to have an unlimited weapon, but vary it. Different weapons for different instances.

Also, how about a concrete type wall that instead of bouncing bullet and homing missiles just sitting at the edge until the expire, they would explode on impact. Then people can outrun missiles and cause them to hit things etc. (and i wouldnt be so hessitant about putting them in my maps) As it is they are a sure hit unless you can get them trapped behind a wall and stopped there.

So how 'bout it chief?


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jms
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Change to make developers VERY happy:

[spawn]
Ship_ID_Number = X, Y, Angle, Can_Spawn

Angle is degrees clockwise from Galactic North
Can_Spawn is 0 or 1 allowing you to limit the number of active ships.


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Hal
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Um. . . if Can_Spawn is 0 no ships can spawn.

So no throw that out! This is supposed to be 8 player game not a "well I think this map is 2 player map so I'll restrict it.

I like the angle idea though.


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GuppyMan
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I like the angle idea. As on some of the capture the flag maps you have to turn around at the start, while the other team is facing the appropriate direction, thus giving one team an advatage.
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Mosquito
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Powerups don't seem to work well. Check this map out: http://www.lm.com/~ccw/maps/OneWay.ini

I have a "minefield" of concealed traps drawn in the map but they don't appear in synSpace.


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samsyn
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I think it's the blank line and/pr comments after the section name.

.ini files are funny about that sort of thing.

I recommend

;
; comments first
; blah
; then the section name followed by
; data with no blank lines
[section name]
d1 = v1
d2 = v2
...

(um, you can have blank lines BEFORE the section name, just not AFTER it.)

[This message has been edited by samsyn (edited 11-27-2001).]


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Mosquito
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That didn't change anything. It still does not show anymore powerups after a certain number.

[ahhh... I thought you meant NONE of them showed up... -s]

[This message has been edited by samsyn (edited 11-27-2001).]


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samsyn
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Any chance you have "advanced weapons" disabled in the options dialog?
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samsyn
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I'm trying out your map, but since my ship is stuck in a small area, I can't travel enough to really see if it works or not (and you can only see pups when they are close by)

Stepping through the debugger though, it looks like they are getting loaded from the map ok.


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samsyn
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OK, all I did was remove the comments, so it looked like this:

[powerups]
0= 0, -1, -1, 10
1= 0, -1, -1, 10
2= 0, -1, -1, 10

And if I fly out of the box I eventually find a blue square with a zillion traps around it....

OH, I bet I know what's happening. You're probably setting some so close together that they 'snap to' the closest grid line (pup positionining is much lowere resolution than line or zone positions).. So you are seeing several pups on top of each other, which look like a single pup.

If the galaxy coords are 0-8191, pups can only be placed on the even multiples of 32.. so

0, 32, 64, etc.

If you put a PUP at 15, for example, it will snap to 0. actually, it probably always 'snaps to the left' so 31 would also snap to 0.

-------

This is just my guess.



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Mosquito
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Well, I thought that for a momment that maybe they are stacking up. But, I am not seeing any concealed traps at all. I see the homing missles in the middle (which are probably stacking up) just fine but no concealed traps.

btw, what small area are you stuck in?


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samsyn
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it sure SOUNDS like:

1.) You have "No Hazards" selected

or

2.) You still have the blank line and/or comments after the [powerups] section name.

---

One thing I notice is that if you change an .ini file, windows tends to keep it around in a compiled form until you open some other .ini file

So, as a map developer, you end up having to:

1.) save your new .ini file
2.) select a totally DIFFERENT map
3.) Select your new .ini file again.

----------

I was stuck in your maze of twisty passages. Not stuck in the big sense of stickage, just in the sense that I couldn't easily zoom around looking for where you might have placed mines.

Your maze is a fine maze. And your achievement of one-way barriers still mystifies me. Is it a 'drift' zone in between the barriers? It's very wicked cool.


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Mosquito
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/a slaps himself in the forehead.

I forgot that I left harmful powerups disabled. I'm really sorry about that.
---
As for my one way barriers, I simply have a really thin zone between two transparent walls (it can be just one if you like but two looks cooler). This zone has a current pushing you towards the way you cant come from.

Now, by accident, I made the second wall (the wall which side you can pass from) a solid wall. This turned out to be a good thing. It made it so you cant even touch the zone from the wrong side. Because of a bug (now a feature, really), the solid wall is on the edge of the zone and will not be in the way of the current. The current pushes you over the wall.

code:

+ sign is the zone

Fake wall > |+++|
|+++|
|+++| < Real Wall
|+++|

Zone Current >>>>>>
(positive X)


This all works beautifully together to make an effectife one-way barrier (meaning Dan doesn't have to implement one way barriers).


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samsyn
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I just have to be careful not to fix the bug which allows your trick to work!
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samsyn
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.0023 RELEASE NOTES
-------------------

This isn't a huge release, but I want to fulfill a couple old promises before getting all hot and bothered about hammurabbi..

* Zones are accepted with reversed arguments. (it was really me who was 'reversing' them in the first place!)


* NEW [CREDITS] section in map file

Your map file can (and should) now include a CREDITS section, which looks like this (and apologies to Mosq if he pre-implemented this to old spec...)

[credits]
author=Billy Crystal
sernum=4D2378AC
version=2.03
email=billy@crystal.com
info=This is my first map so don't yell at me!

This information is displayed in the OPTIONS dialog area (below the current map settings in the little window on the right).


* SIMPLE VERSION CHECKING

When you fetch a new map from another player, if it is the same name as a map you already have, I put up a little dialog asking you if you really want to overwrite the copy you already have.

I Include all the new CREDITS info for both versions, to help you decide.

If you DO overwrite your copy, the old copy is saved in your MAPS file as "mapName.ini.bak" (until you overwrite it a second time, at least).


* SHIP SPAWN POINTS MAY INCLUDE STARTING HEADING.

It's optional. see map0.ini for details. Legal values are 0-359 (in degrees).

---------

And I think that's it. Still no waypoints (sorry) and no new weapons, etc.


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Mosquito
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Me and GM Found a major bug.

If you sit on a non-random powerup, Arcadia freezes completely. CLRT+ALT+DEL end task is the only way to fix it.

I noticed it seemed to happen once you filled up with the powerup and cant get more.


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samsyn
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Hmmm...... you mean a map-defined powerup which reappears every N seconds and you are successfully picking up objects until you fill up and then you lock up?

And do you have to sit on it... or can you do the same thing by flying over it repeatedly?


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Mosquito
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It happens when you hit END and sit on it.
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GuppyMan
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Actually, throw MGB's new map (WarpBase) under the debugger and try it.......thats where we keep seeing the bug.
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samsyn
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OK, found it. It was the marquee buffer filling up. I think if you turn off the marquee the freeze won't happen (I think). I have a more permanent fix (I hope).

In general, I would suggest not having things respawn too quickly, only because a respawn sends a packet (even if you were 'full' since officially you don't know what it was until after you ask the host for it.)

So, while I believe I have fixed the actual freeze (good catch!) I think there is a larger issue to deal with... maybe some sort of velocity nudge to keep you from parking on a pup in the first place.


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Hal
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In 8-player CTF, it goes "Halmundo found flag 1" In Odd-Even CTF it goes "Halmundo fod Even team's flag". 'ow 'bout in 8-player it goes "Halmundo found Player 2's flag"? 'ow 'bout it?
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Volte6
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Dan, Pllllllllllllease don't let synspace fade into the background...

Anyhow, a few suggestions that you have probably heard...MAY have been suggested before...but I want them to be posted here anyhow


  • Odd/Even team have only TWO distinct colors. Perhaps this can be somehow varied. Such as...an outline of the team color, but a fill in color of the actual ship. This is beyond needed. It is just too difficult to constantly reference the color of the ship with the name, then the name with the team #.
  • Somehow lock players on a certain team. Often times when someone dies and reenters, they are reassigned a team. Thats no fun nope nope nope...
  • Remember the whole "Draw your own ship" thing?
  • Zones can be painted. Currently, if I want to designate an area or zone as something, I have to draw a grid of a color with pass throughable walls. It would be immensely helpful to be able to color a whole area in with a color. Think of goals being blue/red in entirety, Healing zones, Safety zones (no fire)...all of this could be specified by a painted color...
  • When do we get to use textures in space...
  • COMETBALL!
  • One thing I think would help out a lot, is to fix the physics with the zones and pushy/pully effect. Essentially, no matter how fast a zone is pushing you, bullets go the speed and direction of your ship WITHOUT the zone effect. Also (as i'm sure you know but...) The zone velocity is not added well with the ship...once exiting the zone, the ship IMMEDIATE changes direction to what it would be if the zone was never encountered. This can result in constantly bouncing off of the edge of the zone and back to it. Really weird really...
  • a cool idea would be to have an object that has to be shot to move. Think...like an asteroid. Anyhow, players could shoot it around the level and if it collides with someone, it would damage them. It would just bounce around and stuff
  • Variations of the plasma rounds (spread shot, rapid fire, charge-up blast, and so on.)
  • Turbo boost (maybe using 100% of charge, maybe increasing temp)
  • Some sort of 'invincible' or 'powerful' powerup that would cause a notible change in the ship, and cause it to do double damage...(everbody run from the sparkly ship)

    I think thats enough for now...
    Since you are currently working on synville, I don't see it happening soon, but there are the suggestions...

    [This message has been edited by Volte6 (edited 01-02-2002).]


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  • azaman
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    Dan I love Synspace! Next to Synspade of course. I wouldn't that you change anything.

    Except one thing, could you make the space bar the fire botton? It's easier using the arrow keys and the space as fire than the way it is now. Or could place a code for allowing to configure your keys?


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    Leniad
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    Azaman: Dan didnt choose insert as the firing button because he loves making weird gammes. All the good keys are used on chatting, and it would be a problem to chat and use spacebar for firing at the same time
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    $FISTofFATE$
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    I kinda think it is unfair that Homing Missles are like %100 chance of getting their victim.(I think they disappear if you dodge em for lnng enough)

    IDEA! Flares or heat beacons. You drop them like proxy mines and then the homing missle on your tale goes to that and goes boomy away from you.

    $FoF$


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    GuppyMan
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    Bah homing missles are sooooooooooooooooo easy to get away from or explode. Just look into using more plasma shields, and you will see that homing missles have no where near a 100% hit percentage.
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    bandit
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    I've actually been able to dodge a pair, with out using walls, but you have to be very careful, and turn and fire your engines at just the right time, so that they have to turn completely around to get you. it really sucks when they split, cuz thats when it gets really tricky heheh
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    Hal
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    Hah! I beat 3 homers, and the ALL split! *is cool*

    P.S. Yes, I wanted synSpace to get going again, just for more of an idea of what RC will be like, not to slow Dan down in deveolping RC!


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    samsyn
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    It's funny really, since they're basically the same game, only without the eye candy.

    Well, synSpace + empyrion + persistent universe + 3D --> rocket club.


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    Hal
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    I want more lines to use in synSpace! 100 seems tiny when making a race map, so, cout you up it to 200, well, at least 150?
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    GuppyMan
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    Aren't there performance issues? Since Dan has to have the program check to see if you have hit any of the barriers. The more lines you add the more checking that the program must do every time you move or shoot.

    [This message has been edited by GuppyMan (edited 04-06-2002).]


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    samsyn
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    tht;s the idea at least. I don't know if any measurements have been made.
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    Mosquito
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    Yeah, I also think we need more than 100. With all the text stuff, you have a lot of non-bouncy barriers that don't (or shouldn't) have to be checked.
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    samsyn
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    Okie Dokie... version .0024 just released. Hopefully with a no-longer-crashing-people marquee.

    [ 06-30-2003, 12:26 PM: Message edited by: samsyn ]

    --------------------
    He knows when you are sleeping.

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    GuppyMan
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    I believe you mean .0024.

    And yaaaay! It no longer crashes.

    Thanks Dan. :-D

    [ 06-30-2003, 12:29 AM: Message edited by: GuppyMan ]

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    Coyote
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    Yea thanks dan, arcadia my favorite game

    --------------------
    Coyote***

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